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	<title>Comments on: How Bill Livingston Failed Cleveland</title>
	<atom:link href="http://disappointmentzone.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/how-bill-livingston-failed-cleveland/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://disappointmentzone.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/how-bill-livingston-failed-cleveland/</link>
	<description>Musings from a Cleveland sports fan</description>
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		<item>
		<title>By: disappointmentzone</title>
		<link>http://disappointmentzone.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/how-bill-livingston-failed-cleveland/#comment-11401</link>
		<dc:creator>disappointmentzone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 03:51:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disappointmentzone.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/how-bill-livingston-failed-cleveland/#comment-11401</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know who Livingston intended his column for -- casual, rabid, both. 

I do know his thesis would only be interesting to casual fans of the Browns. 

Were casual fans his intended audience then he does them a disservice by making an idiotic point about Anderson&#039;s best games and an incorrect point about Anderson&#039;s unimpressive performances against the Steelers and Ravens.  

Were rabid fans his intended audience then his column was 1) boring (because we all agree that it&#039;s not wise to sign Anderson to a huge contract right now) and 2) repulsive (because of his mostly idiotic reasons for not locking up Anderson right now).

I don&#039;t think it takes complex formulas to evaluate quarterbacks. QB Score is incredibly simple to calculate -- certainly far easier than the NFL Quarterback Rating. On this blog I have no interest in speaking down to casual fans. I&#039;m more interested in raising the level of discourse. With that column Livingston adversely affected casual fans and in so doing lowered the level of discourse. So I called him out for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know who Livingston intended his column for &#8212; casual, rabid, both. </p>
<p>I do know his thesis would only be interesting to casual fans of the Browns. </p>
<p>Were casual fans his intended audience then he does them a disservice by making an idiotic point about Anderson&#8217;s best games and an incorrect point about Anderson&#8217;s unimpressive performances against the Steelers and Ravens.  </p>
<p>Were rabid fans his intended audience then his column was 1) boring (because we all agree that it&#8217;s not wise to sign Anderson to a huge contract right now) and 2) repulsive (because of his mostly idiotic reasons for not locking up Anderson right now).</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it takes complex formulas to evaluate quarterbacks. QB Score is incredibly simple to calculate &#8212; certainly far easier than the NFL Quarterback Rating. On this blog I have no interest in speaking down to casual fans. I&#8217;m more interested in raising the level of discourse. With that column Livingston adversely affected casual fans and in so doing lowered the level of discourse. So I called him out for it.</p>
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		<title>By: Haze</title>
		<link>http://disappointmentzone.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/how-bill-livingston-failed-cleveland/#comment-11400</link>
		<dc:creator>Haze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 03:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disappointmentzone.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/how-bill-livingston-failed-cleveland/#comment-11400</guid>
		<description>So if the writer uses &quot;simplistic and unfounded&quot; viewpoints in regards to simple math (the percentage of Anderson&#039;s passing capability coupled with costs of keeping him) he or she is speaking mostly to a casual audience because the rabid fan otherwise would notice the descrepancy? Its simple: one good year = unproven. Salary cap with a long term commitment = bustline, with unreliable results. I agree he sucks as a writer but any one individual can understand why just by briefly scanning the article. He doesn&#039;t articulate why Anderson has been good or bad or why Quinn would be any better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So if the writer uses &#8220;simplistic and unfounded&#8221; viewpoints in regards to simple math (the percentage of Anderson&#8217;s passing capability coupled with costs of keeping him) he or she is speaking mostly to a casual audience because the rabid fan otherwise would notice the descrepancy? Its simple: one good year = unproven. Salary cap with a long term commitment = bustline, with unreliable results. I agree he sucks as a writer but any one individual can understand why just by briefly scanning the article. He doesn&#8217;t articulate why Anderson has been good or bad or why Quinn would be any better.</p>
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		<title>By: disappointmentzone</title>
		<link>http://disappointmentzone.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/how-bill-livingston-failed-cleveland/#comment-11396</link>
		<dc:creator>disappointmentzone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2007 22:31:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disappointmentzone.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/how-bill-livingston-failed-cleveland/#comment-11396</guid>
		<description>The difference between casual and rabid has nothing to do with intelligence. The difference is interest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The difference between casual and rabid has nothing to do with intelligence. The difference is interest.</p>
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		<title>By: Haze</title>
		<link>http://disappointmentzone.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/how-bill-livingston-failed-cleveland/#comment-11332</link>
		<dc:creator>Haze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2007 01:10:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disappointmentzone.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/how-bill-livingston-failed-cleveland/#comment-11332</guid>
		<description>&quot;The column he wrote about Anderson best serves people who are only casual fans of football&quot;

Is this to say that casual fans of professional football are somehow of inadequate intelligence, as opposed to &quot;rabid&quot; ones? Oh, please say yes to that one. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The column he wrote about Anderson best serves people who are only casual fans of football&#8221;</p>
<p>Is this to say that casual fans of professional football are somehow of inadequate intelligence, as opposed to &#8220;rabid&#8221; ones? Oh, please say yes to that one. :)</p>
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		<title>By: disappointmentzone</title>
		<link>http://disappointmentzone.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/how-bill-livingston-failed-cleveland/#comment-11233</link>
		<dc:creator>disappointmentzone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disappointmentzone.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/how-bill-livingston-failed-cleveland/#comment-11233</guid>
		<description>Erik, your point about Grossi is spot on. He often strikes me as far too invested in the team (in the bad way for a beat writer to be invested). 

I actually miss Roger Brown. His was the only piece of writing in the PD sports section I read every day (or M,W,F,Sun). As often as not I thought he was wrong -- analysis was not his strong suit -- but the format was so much more tolerable than the columns of Shaw and Livy. He actually did something resembling reporting, too (even if that reporting was on house prices for departing NFL players). If I found out tomorrow that Livy and Shaw have been living in Alaska the past three years I wouldn&#039;t be surprised.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erik, your point about Grossi is spot on. He often strikes me as far too invested in the team (in the bad way for a beat writer to be invested). </p>
<p>I actually miss Roger Brown. His was the only piece of writing in the PD sports section I read every day (or M,W,F,Sun). As often as not I thought he was wrong &#8212; analysis was not his strong suit &#8212; but the format was so much more tolerable than the columns of Shaw and Livy. He actually did something resembling reporting, too (even if that reporting was on house prices for departing NFL players). If I found out tomorrow that Livy and Shaw have been living in Alaska the past three years I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik</title>
		<link>http://disappointmentzone.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/how-bill-livingston-failed-cleveland/#comment-11232</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:54:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disappointmentzone.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/how-bill-livingston-failed-cleveland/#comment-11232</guid>
		<description>That should be, &quot;Paul Hoynes and Dennis Manoloff have been SOLID for a long time.&quot; Curse you, Arial font.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That should be, &#8220;Paul Hoynes and Dennis Manoloff have been SOLID for a long time.&#8221; Curse you, Arial font.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik</title>
		<link>http://disappointmentzone.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/how-bill-livingston-failed-cleveland/#comment-11231</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:52:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disappointmentzone.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/how-bill-livingston-failed-cleveland/#comment-11231</guid>
		<description>The PD definitely needs some new blood. This is what happens when decreasing circulation leads to layoffs, attrition and a hiring freeze. Most of the people who write sports for the PD have been there for at least 15-20 years, and the relatively-new hires like Jodie Valade aren&#039;t from around here, leading to the whole feeling that the PD is out of touch.

I like their Indians coverage. I think Paul Hoynes and Dennis Manoloff have been sold for a long time. Tony Grossi writes the occasional column like he&#039;s trying to influence the decision-making in the Browns front office, leading me to believe that maybe he&#039;s a little too involved with what goes on in Berea. But I really can&#039;t complain about the coverage he and Mary Kay Cabot provide. The Browns are the most-followed team in Cleveland, and are covered as such in the PD.

The Cavs coverage ... well, let&#039;s just say that more Mary Schmitt Boyer and less Branson Wright is always a good thing. As long as Brian Windhorst is at the Beacon, the ABJ will blow the PD&#039;s Cavs coverage out of the water.

The two front-page columnists are old, sullen and cranky. Livy is the poster child, and I get the feeling that given another five years, Bud Shaw will hate his job as much as Livy does. Shaw&#039;s writing is by far the more bland of the two, and his Page 2 package that replaced Roger Brown is a joke -- which is ironic, because Shaw desperately tries to be funny throughout it.

Pluto is great with few exceptions. I&#039;m just hoping Livy and Shaw don&#039;t rub off on him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The PD definitely needs some new blood. This is what happens when decreasing circulation leads to layoffs, attrition and a hiring freeze. Most of the people who write sports for the PD have been there for at least 15-20 years, and the relatively-new hires like Jodie Valade aren&#8217;t from around here, leading to the whole feeling that the PD is out of touch.</p>
<p>I like their Indians coverage. I think Paul Hoynes and Dennis Manoloff have been sold for a long time. Tony Grossi writes the occasional column like he&#8217;s trying to influence the decision-making in the Browns front office, leading me to believe that maybe he&#8217;s a little too involved with what goes on in Berea. But I really can&#8217;t complain about the coverage he and Mary Kay Cabot provide. The Browns are the most-followed team in Cleveland, and are covered as such in the PD.</p>
<p>The Cavs coverage &#8230; well, let&#8217;s just say that more Mary Schmitt Boyer and less Branson Wright is always a good thing. As long as Brian Windhorst is at the Beacon, the ABJ will blow the PD&#8217;s Cavs coverage out of the water.</p>
<p>The two front-page columnists are old, sullen and cranky. Livy is the poster child, and I get the feeling that given another five years, Bud Shaw will hate his job as much as Livy does. Shaw&#8217;s writing is by far the more bland of the two, and his Page 2 package that replaced Roger Brown is a joke &#8212; which is ironic, because Shaw desperately tries to be funny throughout it.</p>
<p>Pluto is great with few exceptions. I&#8217;m just hoping Livy and Shaw don&#8217;t rub off on him.</p>
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		<title>By: RockKing</title>
		<link>http://disappointmentzone.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/how-bill-livingston-failed-cleveland/#comment-11222</link>
		<dc:creator>RockKing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:31:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disappointmentzone.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/how-bill-livingston-failed-cleveland/#comment-11222</guid>
		<description>GREAT post. I&#039;ve been saying sort of the same thing for the past couple years. I used to really enjoy Livingston&#039;s writing, but since LeBron came to town, it&#039;s been nothing but steady love letters about LeBron and simplistic, redundant, and inane columns about, essentially, nothing. 

Also agree with your comment about Doug L. (no idea how to spell it, and too lazy to look it up). Wish the PD featured more of his writing, as he tends to have even better insight into OSU sports than the Dispatch does.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GREAT post. I&#8217;ve been saying sort of the same thing for the past couple years. I used to really enjoy Livingston&#8217;s writing, but since LeBron came to town, it&#8217;s been nothing but steady love letters about LeBron and simplistic, redundant, and inane columns about, essentially, nothing. </p>
<p>Also agree with your comment about Doug L. (no idea how to spell it, and too lazy to look it up). Wish the PD featured more of his writing, as he tends to have even better insight into OSU sports than the Dispatch does.</p>
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		<title>By: disappointmentzone</title>
		<link>http://disappointmentzone.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/how-bill-livingston-failed-cleveland/#comment-11207</link>
		<dc:creator>disappointmentzone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 03:36:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disappointmentzone.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/how-bill-livingston-failed-cleveland/#comment-11207</guid>
		<description>Other than Pluto -- who I hope took the PD for a boatload of money -- and maybe their OSU beat writer the PD sports section is a travesty for a major metro newspaper, especially one covering three pro sports teams and a university with the largest athletic budget in history. They need to inject some new blood in there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Other than Pluto &#8212; who I hope took the PD for a boatload of money &#8212; and maybe their OSU beat writer the PD sports section is a travesty for a major metro newspaper, especially one covering three pro sports teams and a university with the largest athletic budget in history. They need to inject some new blood in there.</p>
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		<title>By: kiddicus</title>
		<link>http://disappointmentzone.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/how-bill-livingston-failed-cleveland/#comment-11189</link>
		<dc:creator>kiddicus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disappointmentzone.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/how-bill-livingston-failed-cleveland/#comment-11189</guid>
		<description>someone needs to fire the Plain Dealer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>someone needs to fire the Plain Dealer.</p>
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